Curse

Acumen · Aug 12, 2010, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Femmefatal

Don't much care what you think Lawnboy mower. I told you why I don't play those and you obviously can't read or comprehend as I said they cost $15 a month and I want this game to give what those give at NO MONTHLY FEE. Comprede igmono?

At any rate GW1 is going to die no doubt about that. The population that buys into GW2 will be from the population of GW1 no doubt about that either. I highly doubt there's going to be some NEW flood of players to play GW2. Especially if it's simular to GW1 it will be the ole been there done that why should I pay to do it again syndrome.

You seem to be sorely missing long-term perspective of the life and evolution of online games. The ratio of people who played Diablo 1 to Diablo 2 is small, as is the case with many, many other sequels that surpassed their original. The game industry isn't the movie industry, where the sequel is almost always an inferior attempt to squeeze more money out of the franchise. Games series are built up, and improve over time.

Saying that Guild Wars 1 will "die" is ridiculous too. All games become less popular over time, obviously. But "die" is such a evocative word for the gradual, inevitable lessening of players. People still play the non-expansion version of Diablo 2, over a decade after release!

Look at this article: http://mmohut.com/editorials/oldest-mmorpgs 10 MMOs that are least a decade old that are still running. I wouldn't call any of them "dead". No one's "pulled the plug" on these because the cost of keeping a 10 year old game running is trivial. They all have loyal fans that continue to enjoy them.

Kymeric · Aug 12, 2010, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Femmefatal

At any rate GW1 is going to die no doubt about that. The population that buys into GW2 will be from the population of GW1 no doubt about that either. I highly doubt there's going to be some NEW flood of players to play GW2. Especially if it's simular to GW1 it will be the ole been there done that why should I pay to do it again syndrome.

Just to note, I am one of the players who has recently joined GW1 because I am excited about GW2. In the previous MMO I played, there was repeated, excited discussion in the forums about GW2 from people who have played GW1 as well as those who never have.

With the great number of things that the devs of GW2 are hoping to do with the game, I expect that there will be a lot of people interested in playing it. There are plenty of people who are tired of playing WoW clone after WoW clone, and will be geeked about ideas like a dynamic world, grindless advancement, easy grouping, mechanic supported RP, high/low level joint play, etc.

Frankly, it doesn't look like GW2 will be that similar to GW1. It looks like it is the next generation of the ideas that made people like GW1, expanded and matured.

Add to that the fact that more and more people are realizing that Item Shops in supposedly F2P games almost always cost you more than subscription if you really want to play the game, and the "pay once for the game" model sounds awfully appealing. Of course, I don't really need to tell you that, since that's what seems to be the one thing you like about the GW franchise.

Still, back to the original topic, as someone who has joined GW1 to fill the time before GW2 comes out, I don't expect that I'll be playing GW1 after GW2 launches. I don't expect most people who come because of GW2 will either.

Quaker · Aug 12, 2010, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

I don't have numbers, so I can not say anything for certain, but it's my personal impression, that the post-release free content that Valve made for Team Fortress 2, must have cost A LOT of money to have developers keep working on such big extensive updates.

One of the main things you neglect here is that TF2 requires very little bandwidth and/or server space from Valve.
TF2 is played on servers paid for by the users. Valve's server/bandwidth is only used for client verification and active server lists, but the game is actually played on private servers rented or otherwise supplied by the users.

One of the best (imho) free give-aways was when they gave Team Fortress Classic - which I still play occasionally - with Half-Life (1). But, like TF2, it also runs on private servers, not on Valve servers.

It's also worth noting that most of the "free" games that have been mentioned as give-aways with other games, are stand-alone games. They require no bandwidth/server resources from anyone but the user.

Quote:

If there is still a way to cash-in on the old Guild Wars games, maybe, what they should do, is to make some Henchmen-ish Heroes, who have the functionality of Heroes, but simply look like Henchies.

The only way to "cash in" on GW is to do something that actually generates real cash. Many of you people seem to think that ANet somehow makes money from having people play GW1, but no, ANet makes money from selling the game and by selling other goodies through the on-line store.

At this point, ANet is mostly concerned with having people continue playing GW1 so that they won't lose their customers to other games before GW2 is released. Once GW2 comes out, the bandwidth and server resources to keep GW1 going should indeed be "trivial" when compared to the resources used for GW2, but not if they for some reason encourage more people to play GW1 for free forever.
As I said, I could envision ANet giving Prophecies away for free as sort of a longer term trial - like say 6 months - but free forever? I'm sure they are not that crazy. (Of course, they could always expand the micro-transaction aspect of GW1, or use in-game advertising, or allow people to run it on private servers, etc.)

Mintha Syl · Aug 12, 2010, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

The only way to "cash in" on GW is to do something that actually generates real cash. Many of you people seem to think that ANet somehow makes money from having people play GW1, but no, ANet makes money from selling the game and by selling other goodies through the on-line store.
[...]
As I said, I could envision ANet giving Prophecies away for free as sort of a longer term trial - like say 6 months - but free forever? I'm sure they are not that crazy. (Of course, they could always expand the micro-transaction aspect of GW1, or use in-game advertising, or allow people to run it on private servers, etc.)

As the idea was "give Prophecies for free so people buy the rest" they would be making real cash, not just keeping people playing. It's always better than no cash at all.
It's like when you make people in the supermarket taste a food so they buy it, or when you give out stickers albulms in school with the hope that kids will want the stickers bought. A long trial, as you suggested, could work as well, with the same mechanics.

Dark-NighT · Aug 12, 2010, 04:50 PM // 16:50

I think it is an awesome idea.

They should bundle Prophecies with the game for free, make a preorder sale for $5 off the normal price, half a year before the game is released, people will play prophecies, want to know more, buy factions, nightfall, eotn to prep their legacy into guild wars 2 and have a good time because the game is still awesome. it would potentially boosts anet sales A LOT, not only from preorder, but certainly from people who buy the rest of the campaigns, on top of that the campaigns are dirt cheap for the ammount of content that is in each one.

Anet should really consider this, give new people something to play for free while they wait for their preorder to go live and for the people that already have guild wars to give their copy, or use it as a mule account, the choice is theirs to make.

Femmefatal · Aug 12, 2010, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acumen

You seem to be sorely missing long-term perspective of the life and evolution of online games. The ratio of people who played Diablo 1 to Diablo 2 is small, as is the case with many, many other sequels that surpassed their original. The game industry isn't the movie industry, where the sequel is almost always an inferior attempt to squeeze more money out of the franchise. Games series are built up, and improve over time.

Saying that Guild Wars 1 will "die" is ridiculous too. All games become less popular over time, obviously. But "die" is such a evocative word for the gradual, inevitable lessening of players. People still play the non-expansion version of Diablo 2, over a decade after release!

Look at this article: http://mmohut.com/editorials/oldest-mmorpgs 10 MMOs that are least a decade old that are still running. I wouldn't call any of them "dead". No one's "pulled the plug" on these because the cost of keeping a 10 year old game running is trivial. They all have loyal fans that continue to enjoy them.

I don't care about them let's discuss and look at NC SOFT they DO KILL games as AUTO ASSAULT and TABULA RASA are both DEAD DIED GONE KILLED GAMES they PRODUCED. So, don't think they won't put GW1 in the dead killed bin after GW2 is released when the population goes kaput. Don't give me that crap there will be a whole NEW group of players for GW2 haha I laugh in your face. Those that play GW2 will be from those that played or are playing GW1 as the MAJORITY and I'll bet my house on that.

Aljasha · Aug 12, 2010, 06:54 PM // 18:54

those games weren't successful at all. that's why they were shut down.

HigherMinion · Aug 12, 2010, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Femmefatal

I don't care about them let's discuss and look at NC SOFT they DO KILL games as AUTO ASSAULT and TABULA RASA are both DEAD DIED GONE KILLED GAMES they PRODUCED. So, don't think they won't put GW1 in the dead killed bin after GW2 is released when the population goes kaput. Don't give me that crap there will be a whole NEW group of players for GW2 haha I laugh in your face. Those that play GW2 will be from those that played or are playing GW1 as the MAJORITY and I'll bet my house on that.

What sort of courier do you intend to send your house on?

Duranin · Aug 12, 2010, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Femmefatal

I don't care about them

Just because you don't care doesn't render the facts invalid!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Femmefatal

let's discuss and look at NC SOFT they DO KILL games as AUTO ASSAULT and TABULA RASA are both DEAD DIED GONE KILLED GAMES they PRODUCED. So, don't think they won't put GW1 in the dead killed bin after GW2 is released when the population goes kaput. Don't give me that crap there will be a whole NEW group of players for GW2 haha I laugh in your face. Those that play GW2 will be from those that played or are playing GW1 as the MAJORITY and I'll bet my house on that.

NCsoft = publisher..
Areanet = developer of GW
Auto Assault and Tabula Rasa = not developed by anet.

Comparison "DOES NOT" work.

Of course the GW2 player base will overlap considerably with the current GW1 players, being a direct sequel of the latter. That doesn't mean that everyone playing GW1 will go straight to GW2 when it comes out without ever looking back. Depending on how they set up the inheritance/HoM bonuses, maybe people will be motivated to go back to GW1 to complete their HoMs and titles for the sake of GW2 in-game bonuses. Over the last 3-4 years GW1 has always been my "fall back" game that I can log on and kick arse at any time. This has helped take off a lot of stress with other games I experimented with (WoW and Aion) when they got too serious business. In the future I intend on continuing this trend so long as there are people playing GW1. Although it's blatant micro-transactions I also like the costumes and will probably continue to buy new sets released on the NCsoft store, unless they turn out to be hideously ugly or something. With how long most of the items/graphics have been around on GW1, any new skins to look at (and acquire) are always very interesting to me.

Just recently I got two friends to start playing GW1 - one quit Aion for GW1, and the other quit Warhammer. They're both very addicted now and they have barely scratched the surface (they are still working on Factions NM, but having a lot of fun despite going at a slow pace.) Old game doesn't mean dying game. It might be "dying" from the viewpoint of a longtime player who has been there and done all the current content on GW1, but to new players it's still a treasure trove of hours spent playing a quite different type of MMO.

Ninja Ninja · Aug 12, 2010, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Seriously you guys they want us moving to gw2 the game which they'll be adding future content and expansions, they don't want a game population there not making money off of.

Lawnmower · Aug 12, 2010, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

One of the main things you neglect here is that TF2 requires very little bandwidth and/or server space from Valve.
TF2 is played on servers paid for by the users. Valve's server/bandwidth is only used for client verification and active server lists, but the game is actually played on private servers rented or otherwise supplied by the users.

One of the best (imho) free give-aways was when they gave Team Fortress Classic - which I still play occasionally - with Half-Life (1). But, like TF2, it also runs on private servers, not on Valve servers.

It's also worth noting that most of the "free" games that have been mentioned as give-aways with other games, are stand-alone games. They require no bandwidth/server resources from anyone but the user.

1) Don't underrestimate the incredible costs of games development. I am absolutely positive that Valve poured a ton of money into those free TF2 and L4D updates.
Game development is very expenssive. It's one thing to create new maps. But so many new weapons, modes, abillities, aswell as the QC for it? I mean, we're talking serious figures here!

2) There are countless free lobby based MMOs out there, with most likely, lesser and more expenssive tech out there. I don't know the cost at maintaining GW1, but if GW1 strengthens GW2, and make GW2 sell more, because you get 2 games in one, and because "GW2 will be alive for a very long time because GW1 is still alive and well" then they make money... in a different way.
So many reviews and praise for Orange Box was also due to the fact that you got 5 games. It's still talked about as one of the best deals gaming has ever seen IMO!

Lawnmower · Aug 12, 2010, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Femmefatal

Don't much care what you think Lawnboy mower. I told you why I don't play those and you obviously can't read or comprehend as I said they cost $15 a month and I want this game to give what those give at NO MONTHLY FEE. Comprede igmono?

At any rate GW1 is going to die no doubt about that. The population that buys into GW2 will be from the population of GW1 no doubt about that either. I highly doubt there's going to be some NEW flood of players to play GW2. Especially if it's simular to GW1 it will be the ole been there done that why should I pay to do it again syndrome.

1) You don't see anything wrong with the logic? Your beating the dead horse. You will never get the experience of a 15 bucks a month game, out of a game with no monthly fee. It's simply not reasonable, and you're bringing down the game based on this unrealistic assumption.
This is the same as hating your own life, because you can't fly.

2) Predicting that GW1 will eventually die is not rocket science, and not something we don't understand, however, if there is a chance to extent the life of the game, since GW2 will be such a radical departure and at the same time, make GW2 a more appealing buy, by offering the original game, with its lore and gameplay, then there is a good chance to extent the life and popularity of both titles.

Ninja Ninja · Aug 12, 2010, 09:07 PM // 21:07

This is probably relevant http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/10908

Ten Ton Hammer: Will new players be able to go back and play through the original Guild Wars after the release of Guild Wars 2 in order to get those special items in the Hall of Monuments? Or will there be a cut-off point to that sort of content?

Jeff: I don't know exactly what the timing will be, but I will tell you that we aren't going to allow new players to Guild Wars 2 to go back and get those items in the Hall of Monuments. Our intent is to reward players who are playing Guild Wars right now. We have so many people who have stepped up to make Guild Wars successful and have invested so much time into their characters. The whole point of this [the Hall of Monuments] is to reward those gamers. We want to say, "Thanks for playing those one, two, or three years in our original game. We appreciate you guys getting into the game early, and we want to reward you for that."

Age · Aug 12, 2010, 09:15 PM // 21:15

No.I would leave them as both separate games if those who buy GW2 want to play GW then buy it.It is not like NCSoft is full of money as they are the ones who decide on what goes on with GW not Arnanet.It would also determine how the the sales of GW2 is vs GW.I doubt and don't think it will be as good as back in 05 when GW first came out.This is due to more competition of more MMOs on the market today.

kupp · Aug 12, 2010, 09:19 PM // 21:19

The one action they could take, is after shutting down GW1 servers, they could provide all 4 games for free download at their website, with some kind of ability for it to be able to run offline. Since they wouldn't be making any more money off of it, they could provide the full PvE experience for the people that never got around to it before.

*Darcy* · Aug 12, 2010, 09:21 PM // 21:21

@Ninja Ninja - yes, but that is an old quote. There should be a newer one (possibly summer of '09) where someone said that they would have a cutoff date of reasonable length for getting HoM benefits. I was left with the impression that you will be able to buy GW1 after GW2 release and get something going in your HoM. But that this would not last forever.

This would make sense as it would give them an influx of new accounts for GW1 and a (likely last) boost to income from GW1.

Age · Aug 12, 2010, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by kupp

The one action they could take, is after shutting down GW1 servers, they could provide all 4 games for free download at their website, with some kind of ability for it to be able to run offline. Since they wouldn't be making any more money off of it, they could provide the full PvE experience for the people that never got around to it before.

They could also provide a server kit for those who want to host private servers and don't worry about accounts being hacked as yours will be on your own HDD.I was thinking of the same thing if they one day decide on shutting the servers down and that is to sell a the whole game with text editors and all.

btw.Why complete your HoM when it really wont have any impact in GW2 especially for Monks,Ritualists,Dervish and Paragons?

MisterB · Aug 12, 2010, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Ninja

This is probably relevant http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/10908

Ninja Ninja, you need to update your links. That is an old quote, and it no longer applies. Here it is again, a developer update that tells us we can continue to update the HoM after GW2 release.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Arena...Wars_2_Unlocks

Acumen · Aug 12, 2010, 10:36 PM // 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

btw.Why complete your HoM when it really wont have any impact in GW2 especially for Monks,Ritualists,Dervish and Paragons?

That's not how it's going to work..it's not going to be "if it's in your HoM, you can use it in GW2".

HawkofStorms · Aug 12, 2010, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Interesting.

I doubt they'd do this (there is still money to be made with GW1), but... eh, would be cool. Although, I'd prefer if it was just optional. Ie, I don't want to have to buy a copy of GW1 when I get GW2. So long as their is also a cheaper unbundled version, I'd be fine with it